New topic

Home Forums Topics Systems & Strategies Actions vs Sets- A Read and React brainstorm

Actions vs Sets- A Read and React brainstorm

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #175730
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So I’ve been really toying around with this idea, and the more I sort it out in my mind, record myself instructing it (for practice and evaluation), and adjust/clean up my thought process on it I’ve come to a decision where I am really intrigued and want to share/explore/accept feedback/get coaching from masters on the subject.

     

    Here’s the thought: instead of calling “plays” in order to help my team dictate actions where we all have a series of movements that is scripted–I’m just going to call out an action.

    So, instead of calling an “elevator screen play” if I’m wanting someone who’s getting hot to get a shot, I’ll just call out “Name-Vader” (or even better–I’ll teach my players enough to where they can manipulate these actions during the game). In essence.. I’m calling an action for a specific player that the team knows how to do. This way I’m staying with the read and react layers/principles and keeping actions simple… while allowing my players to formulate HOW they look each time–I’m thinking it would be extremely hard to game plan against since you could run the same action in a row, 5 different times, with 5 different players as the focal point, and it could look completely different each time.

    Would love some thoughts on this–and would be happy to share the material I have created/recordings if it would assist the conversation/ideas.

    #176339
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Rick uses color calls to emphasize certain types of actions within the flow of the game. “Green” might mean P&C to speed up the flow (“go!”); “Purple” signaling to hunt for Post Up actions, “Blue” calling to “set back screens,” etc.

    TJ has posted some variations he has used. For example, “Shooter” means go 4 out- 1 in with our hot 3pt shooter in the high post, setting back screens for cutters. Because the opposing coach has told his defender to “stick with the hot hand no matter what,” turning him into a screen creates open lay-ups and defensive switching confusion. The shooter can take advantage of this by popping out and shaping up for a catch-and-shoot when the defense breaks down. “Chop,” on the other hand, sets a permanent short corner runner and high post, encouraging 3-out hi-lo action.

    Both of these approaches leaves the decision making in the hands of the players as they hunt opportunities to create.

    As I’m looking to blend more structured actions, I’m thinking about the cognitive shift I’m asking from my players. When do I want them to think about a certain execution, vs. playing with opportunistic flow? I’d be concerned with them trying to create a certain shot for Charlie, as you suggest, rather than hunting any good opportunity the defense gives. Would it take their minds off the basket?

    I’m settling on ‘initiating actions,” short, 2-3 action sequences we can run on non-transition possessions,  where they are set as the ball comes up the floor. I’m looking at two formations–1-4 high and Horns–with one sequence scripted out of each ball handler decision (pass to wing, dribble at wing, feed post, cut strong, cut weak, etc). I’m hoping this allows them to take what the defense gives them while initiating our half court attack with some structure. Each initiation action is built with R&R actions, and flows seamlessly into R&R for the rest of the possession (if none of the scripted opportunities leads to a good shot).

    So, If I want to get Charlie a shot, my ball handler (best IQ) is the only one who has to hunt for the action that gives Charlie options. Everyone else is simply reacting to the flow.

    This has been one of the dominant conversations for me this off season, held with many coaches here and elsewhere. Love to hear other opinions.

    #176342
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I changed coaching positions two years ago( a major rebuild at a larger school) and for the last two years we ended up going down a road with set play dominate offense with our HS varsity. This is not a style that I prefer to play it was out of necessity because of lack of skills, basketball IQ, etc… our sub varsity kids have been brought playing more of a read and react style.

     I used my pause during the pandemic to really examine our man to man offense. I examined a lot of programs, attended virtual clinics, talk to various coaches on how they get good offensive flow. Mike Neighbors at Arkansas and Doug Novak at Bethel were probably the most influential, a few other guys on the virtual coaches clinic beside the read & react stuff that I have used with our younger players.

    My staff and I developed our own terminology (The Words We Use) for our actions that are one word verbiage, similar to football teams. I made a blueprint of how we will move through the GO (transition offense) and the FLOW (1/2 court offense) to implement it. We also names areas of the court. So our set plays now would be mostly called on dead ball situations. Our FLOW formations will either be 5 out or 4 out 1 in (DDM) spacing.

    We have our core actions in the FLOW but we can dictate a not so much used actions or desired actions on dead balls. Mike Neighbors give several reasons why not to call stuff out during live action.

    An Example of a call later in the offense. 1-2 “Rub” (Dribble HandOff) 5-2 “Slugo” (Side Ball Screen) 4-3 “Pin” (Flare Screen).  Right now we can 1-2 “Rub” 5-2 “Slugo” to “Pirate” (Post Up), which a post feed can lead to a Laker cut.  

    So far our kids have really picked up on it and really like it. I like it too as the flow of the offense is much better for us. 

    Late Game or Clock we still have our sets to get multiple actions as needed.

    I am excited to see how we progress in this style of offense and how effective we are in games. Also our zone offense will be the same style of offense so no major changes from one to the other. 

    I would like to hear your thoughts on this topic.

     

    #176356
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I like what you guys are both saying–seems like a way to assist with the mental aspect of the game that players may struggle with. 

    Here are some questions I’m asking myself–even with all of the deliberating and thinking I have done. 

    Will these things help our team win more games now, later, both, or neither?

    Will these things hinder our team growth in the long run?

    Will these things hinder the empowerment of them when the game is hanging in the balance?

    #176357
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Let me add that I probably wouldn’t be doing this in a team’s 1st year of the R&R. Because my team is already empowered to run their own offensive action choices, I feel I can add some initiating structure to get them started in more creative ways. I see this as a “deepening stage,” not a replacement for player-driver “next best action” offensive choices.

    @Nate WadeIf you can answer any your questions in advance, you’re a better coach than I, my friend (which is a strong possibility anyway). They are the right questions to ask, but only time in the lab will reveal the answers, I think.

    #176360
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    LOL on the better coach comment, @Nelson Handel 

    I can’t answer them–and like you mentioned–experience is a great teacher. 

    Okay, so here’s another question to consider… Nelson we’ve had talks in the past about my situation — 3/4 of my team is R/R savvy, 1/8 doesn’t have much experience but their basketball IQ is great, and 1/8 doesn’t quite understand how to play the game without a script. 

    I’m wondering this (and obviously you can tell where I’m leaning)—- would it be better to rehearse a few set “plays” or “actions” with a team that may not be as well versed from top to bottom in the R/R. 

    I’m thinking actions and here’s my WHY…. I believe that if I give them a script/plays then it will slow their mental growth and hinder their confidence to play the game without being told what to do and when to do it. It’s a weird balance I’m working on this year. Next year–no problem… but this year…. let’s just say I’m trying to focus on getting the SCIENCE part in line…. because I’m  going to have to “out art” everyone else to be competitive.

     

    #176361
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I had this conversation with TJ once, and brought up the “limiting” nature of scripted plays. The magic of the R&R is the freedom it gives players to create and play. It develops habits, rather than “mental growth” (I don’t want my players thinking too much). I think that freedom is more important than scripted plays.

    I’ll probably be 60/40 with players who know the R&R this year (had no good JV coach last year, so kids coming up are starting from scratch). My planned approach is to R&R with everyone, making sure that the new kids understand that they need to throw themselves into learning the system if they want to see meaningful minutes on the floor. Then, I’ll quickly press forward with my returnees, introducing our sets. I don’t want to slow down forward progress any more than i have to. I think I can go with my returnees as starters for a while while everyone catches up.

    Of course, I’m fully prepared to eat these words ? 

     

    #176411
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @Nelson HandelI did the true LOL about eating words–it seems we are always prepared and willing to do that as coaches, right?!

    I think the plan sounds good there–I’m about the same on my squad in terms of split of kids who have the habits and those who don’t.

    Nel..

    1. (most importantly) Are you keeping safe out there? Praying for you with all the fire business, my man.

    2. Do you do a lot of breakdown 3/4 man drills after introducing concepts, do a lot of FUSION, or something else entirely?

    3. I have some ideas I’ve also been toying with in terms of guard play, blending with what I’ve gotten from PGC and the R&R team habits… will start below and hopefully have many join in

     

    #176412
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    In terms of “pushing the ball” which I struggle with due to my current group of average size/speed athletes.  Our school has historically struggled when playing “fast” because they seem to play out of control. 

    However, it’d be foolish to not take advantage of the defense being at their most vulnerable state….. SO…. I’m thinking of adding something in for the guys who are bringing the ball up the floor. I am thinking I’d like to develop the habit of making a pass before/at half court… even if that pass isn’t for a score. My thoughts are the more the guards pass the ball up the floor, the faster the ball gets through the RACETRACK, the more scoring opportunities we get.. without falling into the trap of the “1 guard” bringing it up..meeting resistance… and then stalling before movement can happen in transition.

    It’s one of those things that I’m thinking could allow us to play faster while still under control. Guards could all still pass and cut, it would just happen at a different rate/space relation. 

     

    #176415
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    11 hours ago, Nate Wade said:

     

    However, it’d be foolish to not take advantage of the defense being at their most vulnerable state….. SO…. I’m thinking of adding something in for the guys who are bringing the ball up the floor. I am thinking I’d like to develop the habit of making a pass before/at half court… even if that pass isn’t for a score. My thoughts are the more the guards pass the ball up the floor, the faster the ball gets through the RACETRACK, the more scoring opportunities we get.. without falling into the trap of the “1 guard” bringing it up..meeting resistance… and then stalling before movement can happen in transition.

     

    As a general POE, we use the phrase “pass half,” meaning we’re trying to pass the ball over the half line as often as we can in a game.

    #176419
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    we need to do a live learning or group chat on this. I have some new actions and terminology I want to share and get some thoughts on! 

    #176425
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    4 hours ago, TJ Rosene said:

    we need to do a live learning or group chat on this. I have some new actions and terminology I want to share and get some thoughts on! 

    I’m in baby. #feetofthemaster

    #176441
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @TJ Rosene @Nelson Handel I’m in…. nice hashtag Nel. That was perfect ?

    #176442
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    On 9/24/2020 at 10:43 PM, Nelson Handel said:

    As a general POE, we use the phrase “pass half,” meaning we’re trying to pass the ball over the half line as often as we can in a game.

    That’s a solid language there, @Nelson Handel

    I’m always great with integrating common language–and have 0 … and I mean ZERO creativity to come up with them

    #176443
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I am gonna come up with some hashtags for you guys also! 

     

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Forum Statistics

Registered Users
1,432
Forums
29
Topics
182
Replies
986
Topic Tags
21